Winter 1978—European Tour
I used to sit and watch [FZ] write it in airports or other places where he had some time to kill. He would pull out one of his manuscripts from a briefcase and sit there putting dots of pen on paper.
Roy Estrada
February 1978, Good News, Switzerland
Zappa-Zirkus in Bern [...] Sie besteht aus folgenden Musikern: Frank Zappa (guitar & vocals), Adrian Belew (guitar), Peter Wolf und Tom Mariano (keyboards), Pat O'Hearn (bass), Ed Mann (percussion), Roy Estrada (vocals).
Bill Harrington, c. 2000
The article credits Roy Estrada on vocals, however, at the last minute Roy had cancelled from the tour.
February 5, 1978—Festhalle, Bern, Switzerland
Frank Zappa onstage in Bern, Switzerland, in February 1978. (Keystone/AP)
February 14, 1978—Sporthalle, Cologne, Germany
The night we played in Cologne, Germany unbeknownst to me Brian Eno was in the audience. Brian knew David Bowie was looking for a new guitarist for his upcoming tour. He called David after seeing our show and told David he should come see the guitarist for Frank's band.
February 15, 1978—Deutschlandhalle, Berlin, Germany
The next night we performed in Berlin. There was a part of the show where Frank took an extended guitar solo and m...ost of the band members, including myself, left the stage for a few minutes. As I walked to the back of the stage I looked over at the monitor mixing board and saw David Bowie and Iggy Pop standing there.
Wow! I couldn't believe it!
So I walked over to David Bowie, shook his hand and said, "I love what you've done, thank you for all the music". And he said, "Great, how would you like to be in my band?" I motioned back towards Frank and said, "Well, I'm kind of playing with that guy." David laughed and said, "Yes, I know, but when Frank's tour ends my tour starts two weeks later. Shall we talk about it over dinner?"
David said he would meet me back at our hotel and sure enough when I arrived back at the hotel David Bowie and his assistant Coco Schwab were sitting on a couch in the lobby. As I walked past them they whispered to me, "Get into the elevator, go up to your room, come back down in a few minutes, and meet us outside. we have a car waiting."
It was like something out of a spy film.
When I came back down and went outside there was a black limousine waiting. The driver opened the door and I got in the back with David and Coco. David immediately launched into all this plans for his upcoming tour, the songs we would play, the staging, and so on, and how much he loved my guitar playing! It was so exciting! He said they were taking me to one of his favorite restaurants in Berlin.
How many restaurants are there in Berlin? 25,000?
We arrived at the restaurant, went in the front door, and who should be sitting at the very first table but Frank Zappa and the rest of the band! So the three of us sat down with Frank and the band. David, trying to be cordial, motioned to me and said, "Quite a guitar player you have here Frank."
And Frank said, "F••• you Captain Tom."
(note: Frank had demoted David from Major Tom to Captain Tom.)
David persisted, "Oh come on now Frank, surely we can be gentleman about this?"
Frank said, "F••• you Captain Tom."
By this point I was paralyzed. David said, "So you really have nothing to say?" Frank said. "F••• you Captain Tom."
David and Coco and I got up and went back out the front door. Getting in the limo David said in his wonderfully British way, "I thought that went rather nicely!"
I met David Bowie for the first time when I was spending my last year with Frank Zappa's band. I heard that whenever Frank played a concert in Berlin, Bowie would come to see the show. I was so excited to see him that I went back to the dressing room, changed my clothes, calmed down and went to the room where they were. When I introduced myself, saying "I'm Terry Bozzio, the drummer," he said, "Oh, you're very energetic," and then turned away and started talking to someone else. That got me a little disappointed.
We all went out to dinner that night, and after a few beers, David said something provocative when talking with Frank about music, and they got into a bit of an argument. I was shocked and did not sleep well that night. When I met Frank the next morning, he said, "Can you believe that guy was such an asshole?"
Years later I got to know Frank a little bit, and he was very decent to me. We went out for a burger once in Berlin, to a bright lit cheap and greasy joint, with David Bowie. That was pretty funny and unusual. Frank was kind of a wry person, and as he made clear in his film "200 Motels," he had a certain ambivalence about English rock stars. I went along with Frank later that night and kept him company for a while at the Hilton hotel, until his Berlin girlfriend showed up.
For no exact reason, I remember feeling that Frank was a very lonely cat. He was all alone, and the suite was so dark and cold. The girl who came over later was kind of a troubled type, but I think he enjoyed the company and that was about it. Earlier that night at his show, Frank played one of his incredibly long guitar solos while his hired lead guitarist, Adrian Belew, had to wait his turn. That was the moment when David basically hired Adrian away for his own next projects, in a conversation behind the PA stack. I thought that was pretty funny.
February 26, 1978—Vorst Nationaal, Brussels, Belgium
Now it was official: I was being offered a 4-month tour with David Bowie. (In reality it turned into more than a year).
Later that day we were on a bus to an airport. I decided to break the ice. I walked to the very last row in the bus where Frank was sitting. I told him about David's offer. I reminded him of his plan to edit his film and pay me a retainer and asked him if it didn't make more sense for me to join David's tour for 4 months instead. I told him I would gladly return after the tour. Frank reached out and we shook hands.
That evening, February 26th, we played a concert in Brussels, Belgium. One of Frank's songs we did was "Yo' Mama". But for that show Frank substituted the words "Your David".
February 28-March 1, 1978—Hammersmith Odeon, London, UK
Two nights later the tour ended in London at the Hammersmith Odeon. There was an onstage occurrence which angered Frank. Fortunately I had nothing to do with it. Frank cut the show short and stormed off. The next day most of the band members flew back to L.A. where they all lived. I was told later that Frank fired the band on that flight home.
I got on a plane to Dallas for two weeks rehearsal with David Bowie.
The Summer 1978 Tour
Peter Wolf interviewed by Michael Davis, Keyboard Magazine, June 1980
The one thing that was not very strong in our band was the vocal part. [Guitarist] Adrian Belew and [drummer] Terry Bozzio could sing some, but that was it. Tommy could sing some backup, but there was not one guy in the band who was a monster lead singer like Nappy [Brock] was. After one year, Frank got [guitarists] Ike Willis and Denny Walley in the band. They are both really strong singers, so immediately the concentration was back on vocals again. We really enjoyed that a lot. There was not so much soloing going on as in the band with Adrian and Terry, but with the vocals it got into a different dimension again.
Adrian Belew
Adrian Belew, interviewed by Gary Marks, T'Mershi Duween, August 1994
Q: Is it true that Bowie and Eno approached you at a concert?
AB: Not entirely true. It was David Bowie and Iggy Pop, but Brian Eno was the one who instigated it. Eno had seen the Zappa show in Cologne, called Bowie and said, "I think this is a guitar player you should use on your next tour." Then David came with Iggy Pop in tow to the Berlin show and that's where I first met David.
Q: What was Frank's reaction when you wanted to leave?
AB: He didn't like it (laughs). I think Frank didn't care much for David Bowie personally, and then secondly I don't think he liked the idea that I was leaving so soon. But he shook my hand and said, "Good luck and I hope it works out for you." He ended up firing the whole band at the end of the London shows and was very upset about it. It had nothing to do with me, and since I had already in a sense removed myself from the picture, I didn't feel too responsible, but I did go and see him that last night of the tour after the show, and he said, "Good luck." The firing of the band had something to do with some incidents that happened on tour, where people had gotten into trouble with drugs. Not me. I was drug free (laughs).
I had a year long agreement and I intended to stay much longer than that if he would have me. But what happened, we started touring in Europe and . . . see it's kind of a long story but the little known part of it is that when we first started in Europe, several people in the band, not myself but several other people were busted which is a cardinal sin in Franks band. I didn't do drugs so I wasn't a part of it but it made for quite a horrible scene and it led everyone to believe that at the end of the tour he was simply going to fire the whole band which in fact is what he did.
[...] So what happened though, in the meantime, we played in Germany and Brian Eno heard me play in Cologne, called David Bowie who was in need of a guitar player for his upcoming tour. David came to the Frank Zappa show. I saw him on the side of the stage during a break in the show where I usually left the stage and I went up to talk to him and he asked me to join his band. haha . . .
So what followed after that was before the tour was even over I had a decision to make to either continue with Frank or to go move forward with David. And the real thing that made my decision for me was Frank told me that when he finished the tour he was going to spend four months back in his house. He was going to rent a film editor and he was going to edit the movie "Baby Snakes" and it would take him four months. And that during that four months I would be on a retainer. In other words I wouldn't be doing anything. And so, Davids original offer to me to tour, in fact, for four months. So it made sense and I went back to Frank and told him and he said, "Yeah, that makes sense to me too. You know, I think you should go ahead and do that."
I expected to come back into Franks band but things changed on both ends; the Bowie tour went more, much more than four months and Frank took much less time editing Baby Snakes and started another band. hahaha . . .
[...] David did not have any problem with Frank but when the two of them met together . . . and it was obvious David was trying to steal me from Frank. Frank was a little bit mean to David, hahaha He kept on calling him Captain Tom, hahaha So, um, I don't think David had anything against him. I doubt that Frank had anything against David either, he just didn't know his music very well. And it's true for David too, he didn't know Franks music.
Adrian Belew, interviewed by James Santiago and Daryl Trombino, Virtual Guitar Magazine, 1999
During our tour in Germany, Brian Eno came to a show in Cologne and called David Bowie and said, "Hey, I just heard this guitar player with Frank Zappa. You've got to hear him, this is the guy." Then David came to the show in Berlin and offered me a job there. It worked out that Frank's tour was ending, and two weeks later the David tour was resuming. So I just jumped from one band right into the next.
Adrian Belew, interviewing Steve Vai, Guitar For The Practicing Musician, January 1994
STEVE: Isn't that true? He told me the story about when you guys were in Germany and David Bowie came to the show. You went back to your amp to do a guitar solo and Bowie says, "Hey, come on and join my band." Then you went out and did the solo, came back and said, "Okay." Is that right?
ADRIAN: It was kind of like that. There was a segment of the show where Frank did an extended solo and I think Patrick O'Hearn (bass) and Terry Bozzio accompanied him and the rest of the band could leave. I looked off the side of the stage and there was David Bowie and Iggy Pop. I walked over and said, "Hey, David, I've always appreciated your music." And he said, "How would you like to join my band?" I said, "I'm in a band right now with this guy over here," and pointed to Frank. It worked out later that Frank was sort of finished with his thing and it was time for me to go and do something else. That band broke up at the end of that tour but I don't think I created the breakup.
STEVE: Can I tell you what Frank did when I was in the band? You know (keyboardist Tommy) Mars.
ADRIAN: I love him.
STEVE: Scott Thunes was the bass player when we toured Europe and we played the same hall that David Bowie had come to in Germany and met you. We received this note after the show and it said, "Dear Scott and Steve: I really like the way you guys play and I'd really be interested if you want to join my band and stop playing this comedy music." It was a really long note and it was signed "David Bowie." It was something that Mars and Frank put together! It had phone numbers and fax numbers—I thought it was real.
ADRIAN: That's hilarious.
STEVE: I'm like, "Wow! I've got to call this guy and tell him no way—I'm in the middle of a tour here." It was Frank fooling around with our heads.
ADRIAN: I remember one night we were playing the song "Maybe You Should Stay with your Mama." Frank changed the words to "I think maybe you should stay with your David." Apart from that he never gave me any grief about it. He wished me well and it was very generous of him. I often have felt like it was an opportunist move on my part and I wish I hadn't done it, but those things happen. I was young and stupid.
Patrick O'Hearn
[FZ] told me that he fired Bozzio and O'Hearn because they were taking too many liberties with his arrangements instead of playing the parts he had given them. Then he hires Vinnie who was allowed, even encouraged, to pretty much play whatever he wanted to play.
Terry and I were not fired: we left the band in order to start our own group. The 1978 European tour had concluded and Frank would not be touring again for another five or six months, so the time seemed right. Frank, although sorry to see us go, was understanding and supportive.
Terry Bozzio
I auditioned with Group 87 to get a deal with CBS the day that we started to resume rehearsals again after a break in Spring of 78. And I went in, I'd cut my hair, I was wearing different clothes, I'd just played this audition and been offered a deal with a record company. We started to rehearse, me and Pat, and Frank could tell I wasn't really into it. So he called me into his 'office', as he would say, we stepped behind the stage and he said, "I think its time you go off and do your own thing."
He was in the group 3 years and then he decided he wanted to be a Rock'n'Roll Star, in capital letters. He joined UK a year and a half ago. When Eddie Jobson and Terry Bozzio were both in my group they were the best of friends. In UK Eddie was the boss, and as well as that he had two Englishmen and an American who were his slaves. Terry couldn't stand it. He left.
I'd been playing with Patrick O'Hearn, Mark Isham and Pete Maunu as Group 87 and we'd been to audition for a deal at CBS. I was late for rehearsals with Frank because of it. Frank sensed what had happened that day. We get up and we started playing something and Frank felt that I didn't have the heart for it anymore. He said, "Bozzio, step into my office", and we went behind the little riser in the rehearsal studio and he said, "I think it's time you go out and do your own thing." And once again I said, "Are you sure I can do this?" [Laughs] Like a good father he kicked me out of the nest.
Arthur Barrow
My audition was on Wednesday, June 15, 1978, at 4:00 p.m. at soundstage 16 on the old MGM lot in Culver City at 9339 Washington Blvd. A soundstage is a very large room with a high ceiling that is used for indoor filming. It was perfect for rehearsing a band like Zappa's because he could set up the full P.A. and light rigs just as they would be in a real live show.
[Electronic Music Laboratories] had a small business of professionals that would use [the Electrocomp], but it was mostly for education. And that's how Arthur found out about it, and it was so funny when Arthur got in the band and he found out that I played the Electrocomp, he was so elated because he actually had one! And I couldn't believe that he actually had one. [...] That was a big bond for us when he got hired.
Vinnie Colaiuta
Steve Vai, interviewed by Michael Brenna, Society Pages #10, May 1982
[Vinnie Colaiuta] went down to audition. Frank was auditioning many drummers, and he played the "Black Page" for Frank. Frank thought maybe he was just lucky, so he gave him a piece of music to play entitled "Mo 'N Herb's Vacation."
Vinnie finally made the decision to move to Los Angeles permanently in January, 1978. A few months of rough times followed until April 1978, while doing a gig with Tom Fowler. Fowler mentioned that Frank Zappa was looking for a rhythm section.
VC: I had always been a big fan of Zappa's and had every record. In fact, I had just bought Live in New York and loved it. It was funny and it was musically great. The irony is that I called the office and bugged the hell out of them, asking if I could bring a tape by. They said, "No tapes", but I dropped one by anyway. I'd go there every day until one day they called and said "Alright, Mr. Zappa will listen to you Wednesday night." My heart dropped and I literally sank to the floor. I was so happy, not just at the prospect of a gig, but because it was him!
RF: What was the audition like?
VC: I just went in there with the attitude that I was going to shoot my shot and not going to get real uptight because it Zappa. I would just go for it. This was it and I was going to put it all forward. I went there and was watching these people audition. The average time they lasted was like fifteen seconds.
RF: Why do you think they weren't cutting it? What was lacking?
VC: It seemed as though they just couldn't go through with what Frank wanted out of a musician. Frank would put this music in front of you that was ridiculously difficult, like equally on par with 20th-century compositional kind of stuff, and rhythmically it was incredible. These guys would sit there and they could play grooves but they couldn't read or vice versa. He looks for a special combination of elements in a person and I guess they weren't there. I auditioned on Bozzio's drums. I had never played on two bass drums, but I said, "Screw it—I'm going for it!" He put this thing in front of me, "Pedro's Dowry," and it was the melodic part that I had to sight read in unison with the marimba. So I sight read a little bit of that. I just had to concentrate on it completely, and to my surprise, I didn't make any mistakes. He was about to give me "The Black Page." I had tried my hand at transcribing it, so I had it memorized and before he gave me the music, I started playing it. I got about two-thirds through it and I guess he had heard enough because he said, "Okay, yes, you can read." Then he started playing this thing in 21/16 and he wanted me to play along. I grasped it; it was all subdivided in threes and twos. Then he told me to take a solo, so I played on it. Then he came back in and played and said, "Okay, that's enough of that." He started throwing tune after tune and we went through about four tunes. The whole thing lasted about fifteen minutes, which was like a record. Then he pulled me aside and asked me when I could start. I turned white and said, "Anytime." And that was it. That bailed me out of my whole living and financial situation.
I was playing this gig at a place in Venice—I don't even know if it exists anymore [...], it was called the Come Back Inn—[...] I was playing with the Fowler Brothers who—I'm like, these guys played with Zappa—Tom Fowler was playing bass with Zappa and the whole family are really, really talented musicians, right—so I'm playing this gig down there with Tom Fowler and it was like either five bucks or beer, take your pick, that was the pay—so I was like do I need gas tonight? I'll take the five bucks, if not, give me the beer. [...] I'm playing, you know, and you know, I bought a car for a hundred bucks [...] And so I'm planning at the Come Back Inn and one one day Tom comes to me and he goes, "Hey man, I talked to Dookie today and he said Zap's looking for a rhythm section." Now translation: "I talked to Dookie" means "I spoke to George Duke—may he rest in peace—he said Zappa is looking for a rhythm section." I'm like, "Who do I call? Give me the manager's number or something." So he gives me the manager's number and so I'm crashing with some people in like Burbank or Glendale, something in, and I had my drum set up in this room and back then—this is pre answering machine—so I had my drum set up and it just so happened that I was like getting, really getting into Zappa again, and I was listening to like Roxy & Elsewhere, Live In New York, and, and I'm listening these records and I'm playing, and so I gave them—I called them up and they were like, "Go away, kid," it was the whole typical "get out of here." [...] I kept calling them. Left them this phone number I was staying so, I didn't hear anything—I don't know how many days went by—all of a sudden I happened to be in that house at that day, nobody else was home, I'm there playing my drums, and they were loud, but somehow I must have stopped and I heard the phone ring, I pick up the phone, I'm there, no answering machine, "Yeah?" "Mr. Zappa will hear you Tuesday night, show up at Culver City Studios at seven o'clock." Click. I'm like, "Whoa." [...]
So they call me back, and I got down there and, and it's like literally the place looks like an airplane hangar, there's probably like three lines a hunder deep—[...] all musicians—and they're going up there one by one. [Zappa's] on the stage with a mic. [...] One guy go up, you know, maybe play guitar or something, he's gonna play guitar and sing, he'd go up there, start doing his thing, ten seconds go by. "Next." [...] So now it's like drummers, everything, 15 seconds, "Next." So I'm getting to the front of the line and I'm thinking, "Oh no," you know, "Sink or swim, man, here you go," and I get up, I get called up there and I sit down [it was Bozzio left his double bass Gretch there]. It was like a laundry list of stuff. [...] It was like, "Okay, let's see if you can read." So he puts "The Black Page" on a stand and I turned my head away and start playing it from memory, 'cause I knew it, and so he's thinking, "Oh, smart alley cat." So takes it off and he puts this like ten page thing of like, this like, you know, like orchestral piece called "Pedro's Dowry," on the stand and I'm, and he counts it off and I'm having to play it in unison [...]—Ed Mann was playing marimba—I had to play in unison so I start playing and I'm reading it and it's all going pretty well. I'm, you know, about eight bars go by and he comes in, yanks the music off the stand and goes, "Yes, you can read. Okay. Now let me test your memory retention." Spit this phrase back at me, okay? "And now this one. Okay. Now I would like you to play—now play in, you know, 19." [...] [+++52:30+++] And so I start playing goes came now solo yeah 52:32 and you know yeah 17 or whatever and and goes okay now and it was like one thing 52:38 after the other like check check check and I'm sitting there and at one point I kind of stopped and I and I you know in 52:46 the break in the flow and I went I must have been up here for at least a minute already well it's only been a minute you 52:53 know I'm thinking that right I'm thinking more than 15 seconds huh okay and okay well where were we and then out 53:01 and then all of a sudden after all these criteria he's okay stop and says come 53:07 over here he pulls me on the side of the stage and he just said real deadpan yeah he looked me in the eye he goes I'd be 53:15 amazed if anybody could come up here and cut you right now but out of respect I have to listen to a few more people that are left can you go and wait over there 53:22 please [Laughter] yeah he literally said you please go 53:31 wait over there and I'm like okay yeah so I go over there on the side of the stage and there wasn't was like a little 53:37 pit on the bottom yeah and I remember Mike Willis was there and he looked at me goes did he tell you to wait - yeah 53:45 and I said yeah then they were like at this point because I was like in the back of the line there weren't many people left 53:52 right there were a couple more drummers and one guy the last guy that went up that man I'm so bad for this guy I 53:58 really did yeah this day it cuz it was brutal to go through that you know yeah 54:04 oh yes God gets upped and he kind of looked like he had looked like Robert Plant or something yeah and he walked up 54:12 and he had on a cape a cape games which is perfect for Zappa I'm he wore a cape 54:18 he sat down and played and things started on you listen you know after not 54:24 very long he said okay and that's go and the guy wasn't having 54:29 it what no he goes what and he puts on this 54:34 fake British accent yeah because what do you mean and it goes next or out of here 54:41 you know yeah okay that's enough and they literally had to come with the hook and if you like take the guy off the 54:48 drums and so they're dragging him off the stage and he is still ranting and raving he's going I know your rhythms I 54:57 know your rhythms the rhythms the 55:02 Mahavishnu Orchestra I mean whether the 55:10 hook dragon by the cave yeah getting the hook and you're dragging him off the stage and I'm watching this in disbelief 55:16 and and I'm thinking oh I felt bad man whoa so I know the rhythm I know your 55:24 rhythms they could have made twenty 55:30 spinal taps from everybody's stories they're just part one two three and four totally totally and then the manager 55:36 comes up to me and he goes ah mr. sepiol would like to hire you a when can you start well I'm like now yeah yeah and can you 55:45 [ __ ] believe this - I was like yeah Wow I was in shock yeah a hundred people 55:51 he wants to hire you it was nuts and then what happens to you do you go how 55:57 much or you don't carry Jesse I mean the bread was like very low right but I 56:03 didn't can't that time to me it was like a fortune I went kidding me wasn't like something like 500 bucks a week or so 56:08 who cares and I was like I went great I can get my own apartment baby right now yeah yeah so then he he picks me up and 56:18 goes I'm taking you to dinner that night picks me up whoa in cuz he had a driver 56:23 - he asked me up in his rolls-royce Brad takes me to dinner what's the place that 56:31 Wolfgang Puck used to have not oh yeah Spago Spago right there by Tower Records that little one yeah me to dinner there 56:38 yeah then takes me up to his house yeah introduces me to his wife and said I'd like you to meet Vinnie this is our new 56:45 drummer and takes me to meet Gail that takes me to his house picks me up in his 56:50 rolls-royce in San I'm thinking this is not from Greyhound bus ride how did this 56:57 happen in the [ __ ] snowstorm yeah to Zappa's house this yes so this 57:02 is called going all in going [ __ ] all and all in I'm all in man look and look 57:09 what happens yeah it was like I didn't have a plan B yeah I didn't I mean you're not supposed 57:15 to if you want to do something I just yeah I guess yeah I guess it was just like this is do or die 57:21 yeah you know I'm this is either gonna happen I'm gonna starve man yeah you 57:26 know it's very simple do you right away Joe's Garage start recording that do you 57:33 get new drums what happens well I had these drums that I bought in New York I had these yellow Gretsch drums that I 57:38 bought because I wanted to get the same drums that my hero Tony Williams had right so I bought them but they had a 57:45 little 20-inch bass drum but Frank loved it oh yeah 20:21 rage when he's killing 57:52 this yeah but they had big tom toms and eventually I wanted to get a bigger bass 57:57 drum and Frank was like no no no I'm like why I want a bigger bass amigos no that thing is great no please don't 58:05 don't worry I said no I want more low-end it's you know it sounds great we put this compander on it and stuff 58:10 please so I'm like okay so what happens is we just basically start rehearsing we 58:17 rehearse for the first tour that I did for three months Wow three months every 58:22 day and [ __ ] eight hours a day whoa with him there oh yeah in the 58:28 summer and then we went out three eight hours a day yeah from months I'm about three months 58:35 and and was it girl oh yeah I mean this was like a combination of 58:40 like putting the show together where you know you're weeding stuff then you gotta memorize stuff and then you're 58:46 memorizing some of the reading things but then there are other pieces that you better have Andy in case he calls them 58:53 and you know sometimes you'd be playing a gig somewhere and it's just like you know black white and you can't really 58:58 see that well and he's calling got something that just says number 19 on it I'm shuffling on the floor to pick it up 59:05 yeah and it's just like you know gazillion notes and he just stops whatever we're playing and starts 59:11 conducting three four and you better play it right you better play it right 59:16 now and when pop wasn't like a.j if did [ __ ] up was like James Brown thing as well 59:23 you'd kind of get ye he I mean it was like you get yelled at and it was sort 59:28 of like nobody really knew if they were gonna get fired if they screwed up too many times right right you know what I 59:33 mean right and she was really demanding that way and and and you know some were 59:39 rehearsing for this stuff and putting all this stuff together and memorizing things that he's telling us and he's 59:45 changing them all the time yeah and they're to be like we'll go back to that thing that we did yesterday that was the third revision and you know 59:52 so he's putting all this stuff together because he's throwing stuff out there yeah and you're just like it's like clay 59:58 he's like molding you know I mean and he put together this complex show that way and it was like this mixture of a lot of 1:00:06 memorization being able to read really well and improvising and for me he I 1:00:12 think one of the things he liked about the way I played was that you know he 1:00:17 played guitar solos and I'm improvising with him kind of even having this 1:00:22 dialogue with him yeah I liked it and that I understood like polyrhythms in bizarre groupings of rhythm that I was 1:00:30 able to sort of you know play with him and and he you know he because he loved 1:00:37 all that stuff yeah his heroes were like Edgar Perez and these 20th century 1:00:44 composers who wrote all these complex rhythmic things so he injected that kind 1:00:49 of stuff into his music you know yeah and and put it in that context it was kind of unheard of really anybody else 1:00:56 do it you know what elapsed really and so many [ __ ] songs yes like what I 1:01:01 mean unbelievable just spilling out records dude it was like the comedy comedy 1:01:08 central meets bootcamp its Juilliard that's what it was like right right 1:01:14 that's what it was like and and then BAM were gone on the road so boom or bust 1:01:19 how'd you guys doing flew to Europe flew here and then it was like flights back 1:01:25 then it was like all flights we did have some bus stuff later but it was flights and man you know when you're like 20 you 1:01:34 know it's like that's crazy or you quanti you could do that stuff yeah you know we would rehearse during the 1:01:40 afternoon these two entities along with Herzl's and sound checks then sometimes play two shows a long show along with 1:01:47 drum solo then two shows and then get on a [ __ ] plane no sleep do it again 1:01:53 dude and guess what he he recorded constantly right he carried a two inch 1:02:00 tape machine around with that Wow and so it was always being recoil of most of it 1:02:05 then he'd fly that [ __ ] into the records later yeah that's not so used to call me up and go you got to come up and hear 1:02:11 this I'm like what's going on he goes all right he would it would be like something like I took the guitar solo 1:02:17 from Leverkusen and or someplace or you know Dortmund yeah and and and I and I 1:02:23 put it on top of the track two months later from Berlin and you got to hear this yeah and we'd get excited about 1:02:29 mixing and matching stuff like that so sometimes I just go up there listen to these things and he would just put 1:02:36 together you know now who's in the band on your air on guitar yeah what's everything well there there were a 1:02:41 couple of different run carnations at a right time Steve I was in the band right Steve I then Warren Cuccurullo was in 1:02:48 the band and there was like Willis ray white and they were both singing played 1:02:54 guitar and Denny Wally was another one and Arthur Berra was playing bass yeah 1:03:00 and Peter wolf was playing keyboards Tommy Mars was playing keyboards and Edie man was playing percussion was it 1:03:07 was it fun at all or whoa yeah yeah oh yeah I always wanted to know that 1:03:12 because it's it's so growing to work with Frank or say a James Brown where 1:03:18 they're just these that are just spilling out music say or Prince even I always wonder was it fun 1:03:25 yeah I absolutely was fun because like I say you know Here I am this is my first 1:03:31 time you know wow I'm in Europe I've never been to Europe yeah we're on the road and we're playing this great music 1:03:37 and Here I am with Zappa you know in front of these audiences and it was like 1:03:42 you know you got a lot of energy it's all new and the music's great and you 1:03:49 you can you can adore that where you guys touring Joe's garage or just oh his other music before you make just before 1:03:55 we made you you're out just he got a new fan yeah and why does he get a new band 1:04:00 at the time I didn't know why like you know Bozzio why does Bozzio and all those guys leave what happened you know 1:04:07 I'm not sure why you know that's a question for Terry right I mean I'm not sure if it's because missing-persons was 1:04:13 gonna happen yeah but but but whatever the reason was and so a guest that he 1:04:20 and the other guys maybe they left too and so there were some that were staying yeah and so he just needed to fill in 1:04:27 the blanks yeah there's like three eras of Zappa yeah you know it's and their and their long era yeah and people are 1:04:34 like oh yeah this era and then poof everybody's gone and then it's like oh it's this other era yeah yeah exactly 1:04:41 really Wow it is nuts man but also him as a like an experiment maybe gets a 1:04:47 little more like [ __ ] I played with these guys while let's mix this up I want some different feel or whatever exactly yeah 1:04:53 yeah and so and so then we went in to do Joe's garage and interestingly enough when we went into the studio to do Joe's 1:05:01 garage we went in there to cut a single and a b-side yeah and we ended up in the studio for a month he made it all up on 1:05:08 the spot whoa he just he just came to 1:05:15 him and it's like we're staying in the studio I mean that's a master record oh yeah until it's done I mean I remember 1:05:21 there were points where we're vamping and improvising and we're looking through the glass in the control room 1:05:27 waiting for his hand signals which was a cue to jump to another time say mature and one another hand signal would 1:05:34 mean something else and another hand signal would mean something else and so it's he's like choreographing us 1:05:39 while we're just out there just blowing wow yeah wow I didn't even use my own drums on 1:05:45 that record no she used I rented this Gretsch kit from from a guy called Paul 1:05:50 Jamison it was like that you know he's one of the big sort of cartage but he's 1:06:00 like an independent guy two drummers and stuff you know he was did suffers his late great Jeff Porcaro and so so I got 1:06:07 drums from him and and the cymbals - and they were great drums these blonde 1:06:13 Gretsch drums and it was at the village recorders and it was the first time that I met work with Joe chicka relly he was 1:06:20 an amazing engineer Yeah right like Joe's like one of the greatest yeah so 1:06:25 let that was all like made up and it's just all kind of came together it's 1:06:31 saying right when cookie studio time when it's made up like that where there are any song credits to the band members 1:06:37 or a straight Frank only pretty much Frank right right yeah no just cares because when you're in there ad libbing 1:06:43 and coming up with stuff these days it would be like hey man I was in there 1:06:49 when that was created that always gets into the sticky era of the bass player and the drama it does man and I think 1:06:56 that I think that I'm not sure if I'm right about this yeah that I think that 1:07:01 that can happen with now is hip-hop where like you'll get credit if you came up with this part in this and I think 1:07:07 that's a really fair way of doing it yeah and it's probably the only place where it exists and so let's say for 1:07:14 example in Great Britain you've got these Performing Rights aside and I'm not talking about anything like BMI or 1:07:20 ASCAP right I'm talking about where if you have played on a records yeah a lot 1:07:26 of records then you'll get they'll go back and look at the catalog of records you played on and pay you performance 1:07:34 royalties for it is that a mechanical yeah gas yeah yeah because yeah and but 1:07:41 and it's interesting because it's it's it happens in your kind of happens pretty much everywhere 1:07:48 right except here huh I mean you have played on what how many records you 1:07:54 think couple hundred got more than that more than that like five hundred more than that Wow oh yeah 1:08:00 this is insane I got thousand I mean yeah I I mean I'm looking there that's 1:08:07 what I said your discoveries just hilarious is not even complete no no it says just partial I love ya know it is 1:08:15 yeah it is and I'm not mean I played hot plate on a lot of records what I wanted 1:08:22 to go through a couple of these and see if it jogs your memory on anything 1:08:27 because it's good luck well I'm a huge strides and fan oh yeah 1:08:34 [ __ ] love Barbra Streisand awesome was she in the studio when you worked on 1:08:41 that's a huge record emotion was she there when you were there she yeah I mean I remember working with her a 1:08:48 couple of times and she was there Wow he was there and the last time couple years 1:08:55 ago Wow just for that which he just did some stuff with an orchestra and I was there playing on a couple of tracks and 1:09:01 it was amazing cuz this woman her ears are so good yeah so good is she we were 1:09:09 cutting stuff on this last thing that I did with her that she said there's 1:09:14 something wrong there's some wrong notes somewhere in some chord here and they're 1:09:20 going back and checking mind you there's pre-production with keyboard stuff and 1:09:25 orchestra and rhythm section playing live yeah so they were rewinding the 1:09:31 media and listening back listening back sure enough man because the conductor 1:09:37 was like I don't really understand what you're talking about we everybody's playing the right notes 1:09:42 here and the producers in the control room and they're thinking what is she hearing yeah they're like uh-oh here 1:09:47 comes the diva sure enough man she nailed it there was one note that was a rub between what was 1:09:57 pre-recorded on the harm and that workers does she picked that [ __ ] out Wow she picked that [ __ ] out of 1:10:03 a haystack Wow and everybody was like oh really 1:10:09 oh I mean she's got the dog ears yeah yeah it's insane whoa really amazing ears yeah that is 1:10:16 that's so great you worked a sting which is which is amazing and sting I 1:10:23 absolutely love sting and - I'm a huge huge police guy especially ghost in the 1:10:30 machine record I think it's one of the greatest greatest records to come out in the eighties antastic record that record 1:10:38 I saw that tour at the Cow Palace you did yeah and it was just it's probably 1:10:44 one of the things I'll never ever forget and a lot of that was Stewart Copeland what he was doing over there I saw these 1:10:53 in the Ottoman Donna tour Wow yet Stu I mean look the guy is completely an 1:10:59 innovator yeah and you hands down what can you say about it the guy is an 1:11:04 innovator and when you think about that that's a heavy thing to say yeah did we you know that in no uncertain terms yeah 1:11:11 you could talk about somebody and go with this guy's an innovator and somebody will argue say well you know no 1:11:17 it's kind of derivative and yeah I'm not so sure about that you really can't argue that with Stuart no you really can't 1:11:23 because he injected things that it just you just didn't hear it in that kind of 1:11:29 context let alone three guys making all that music are you kidding me yeah well that's where we get into there's three 1:11:37 things that drummers really that if you look at the top 20 drummers ever they 1:11:42 all have they have this originality so Stewart Copeland because I even like 1:11:47 head brad wilk on a year ago from rage and we were talking about how [ __ ] brutal red rage is nobody since Zeppelin 1:11:55 has been that's the you know for guys amen to that for guys and just blowing 1:12:02 your head back but there's these guys that have these bag of tricks and like I 1:12:09 said Keltner you no Stewart Copeland like whoa and when 1:12:16 you have groove originality beats and then also you're a good hang a good vibe 1:12:23 you're going to work like crazy yeah because you people want to they want to 1:12:29 hang what if you want if people want to hang with you yeah it's like that's that's a big part of the game because 1:12:35 first of all you're making them feel good and it's not not out of butt-kissing 1:12:41 now that kind of feel goods now we're not talking about that you know we're talking about being able to hang yeah 1:12:48 man where it was the sense of belonging and and you make them sound good 1:12:54 it better right or if they're already you know people might say well how much better can this guy sound you you're 1:13:01 optimizing it you're right you're riding up to that level you got their back yeah 1:13:07 you got their back you know what I mean and you're just there plus originality I mean when I was coming up that was kind 1:13:13 of the name of the game everybody was different yeah everybody yeah I mean I 1:13:18 can't think of I mean and there was yeah there's always gonna be these cloud of 1:13:25 argument as well I'm like I don't want to hear it yeah I don't want to hear it it's baloney man that's just the way it 1:13:30 was then that's sure and now it's much more homogeneous yes it is yeah yeah I'm 1:13:36 not that's not to say that people are gonna be hating on me and saying you're full of [ __ ] man because you know there 1:13:43 are there are people who are not that I'm not saying that there aren't right I'm talking in a general sense right 1:13:49 right Axl yeah we're talking it like like I said like to me brad wilk stuck 1:13:54 out because here was the guy that played powerful hip-hop beats in a smouldering 1:14:00 almost metal yeah band exactly and you're gone like well if it was any 1:14:06 other drummer here it would just be a metal band with rapping that's why those 1:14:11 other groups all fade it away that we're doing that stuff and and there was 1:14:16 something so much more and it was just pure funk not completely just funk with 1:14:23 this insane you know stuff but there's there's guys out there that do pop out josh freese is one of them he's 1:14:30 just a smoking smoking smoking player sure is and he's all he's old school now 1:14:37 I've known that guy for thirty years like right you know bad when he's plannin on shampoo or you know with 1:14:44 Dweezil on the first tourist there I know I've known Josh since he was like 12 oh yeah of course you know he's up 1:14:52 there at the house how you know when 1:14:58 you're out touring with like a sting that's gotta be so luxurious right well 1:15:05 you know what people here's the thing man people think that it's all like 1:15:11 freaking you know a bed of roses when you're touring yeah touring will beat the hell out of you oh I get about 1:15:17 Whitten but there's levels when you were 13 yeah I will tell you there were times 1:15:22 in the old days in the early days yeah where we were like commercial flights everywhere oh yeah and that can take it 1:15:29 out of you yeah you know then then it eventually transitioned into private plane commercial flights with sting yeah 1:15:37 we've done it whoa we've done it whoa had moved on it that's why but then 1:15:43 it transitioned to private planes right right which yeah let's face it yeah yeah 1:15:50 absolutely no doubt about it yeah it's just I'll tell you something to me it's 1:15:57 like it's either like give me the private plane or the bus right those are 1:16:02 the two cuz the buttons are great there's no yeah we're talking about is no dummies that are you know got pockets 1:16:10 full of change at the TSA the guy that brings is Burger King on and smelling up 1:16:16 the whole plane public in a world of like first time travelers you should be 1:16:21 like snow skiing when you go skin they got double black diamond and then they 1:16:27 have single diamond well that's not flying should be publicly it's like okay double black diamond musicians business 1:16:35 people you just go all right here your own plane everything because exactly and then the vacationers 1:16:42 the kids and the first time travelers you're over there on spirit air yeah I 1:16:48 know or maybe they should just have like a separate like playoff or people that 1:16:55 just want to bring screaming babies on 10-hour flights when you got to sleep yeah you know but yeah but yeah it's at 1:17:02 the bus or a private because at least you could you know sleep on a bus what if there's a strike I've been on these 1:17:08 tours where you know we're taking commercial and you know it's like you're in Italy or someplace I think they just like that oh we're on strike in in a 1:17:17 minute flat yeah and you're just standing there going great how do we get to the gig yeah you know yeah cuz 1:17:23 they're on strike now yeah it's and they've got their machine guns on their back hardcore yeah anything can happen 1:17:32 so yeah yeah so I mean people get sick yeah Oh crazy but it's like this even 1:17:38 with the luxurious travel it's like yeah then you get you can jump on the plane after the gig go to the next place or 1:17:44 even if it's the next day you know you you've got that yeah but you'd still it 1:17:49 I'm telling you man touring is so no touring for you now right well I'm not 1:17:54 at the moment I'm right I've taken this winter to been [ __ ] out at home right but but what I'm saying is it's like we 1:18:00 would always have this joke like we get paid to travel yeah you know really who's the best that you ever played with 1:18:08 that's I'm passing on that one yeah it's too hard yeah it's it's like it's like 1:18:16 depends on who and what yeah what style what you're talking about yeah me cuz I really I don't like I really don't look 1:18:24 at things that way right right it's like if I go into a session it's like I don't I'll go in like an open book right yeah 1:18:31 open book and then it's like I do it and then it's next and I it's all on an 1:18:37 equal par for me you know like I don't even think like that yeah and that's why like I talked about this recently 1:18:45 somewhere else where I was I was talking about it going like you know what he have you ever noticed about a lot of 1:18:52 these man's like really great man's even in sessions the best producers would be the 1:18:59 best casting directors they would be the ones that we're great at casting and if you took a band right where you'd have 1:19:06 like a band where maybe a couple of them are half of oh really can really rip the other guys didn't do that at all and 1:19:13 you'd hear people trying to like Bagon I'm going like why do they have that slug playing bass man you know and 1:19:19 you know between them and the drummer and it's like if you think about it if you took them away it might sound like 1:19:25 [ __ ] right if they had other people who were all of a sudden coming and flailing 1:19:30 all the time right right yeah you don't want to do that no it's the perfect balance yeah they know G they know they 1:19:37 know your dishes really know who's gonna work on what man they're like we can't bring that guy's five and he'll be weird 1:19:44 with this dude or whatever or or that we need up-tempo energy bring in such-and-such yeah but they might look 1:19:51 at this band and go well these guys are all the best except for that one guy and I'll come back and go no that one guy is 1:19:58 there because of the system right which is that that bad right so it's he you 1:20:05 know he the best compared to what you know you're looking at a band and he now 1:20:11 he's the best for that band right he's the best right now for that band if you 1:20:17 took him away put somebody else in there they could play rings around him but wouldn't you just nope wrong you know 1:20:24 yeah yeah so how great is that professional drum shop but you're wearing the hoodie today oh I [ __ ] 1:20:32 love that place I go with BER sometimes and I'm in there and it's just so old-school and love it's fantastic it's 1:20:40 great I never known those guys for years they know their stuff so well and the 1:20:46 fact that it's a drum shop I know like I don't want to go into Fry's Electronics and look for drums no my drummer Dana 1:20:54 Miller used to go there when we'd come to LA go gotta go buy the drum shop and I was into it I'd be yeah let's go there 1:21:00 it's [ __ ] old school you go in there's a Vista light up there that's for you know used like look at 1:21:06 that old Vista light wheel it's real school yeah you can see stand there like you know flattening out a calf head to 1:21:13 put on something yeah take any little thing that's wrong and they know how to fix that they just know stuff about drums and 1:21:20 they care about it it's like man it's just the greatest it's like going into a camera store yeah yeah yeah amaura you 1:21:28 know it's like I want to go it's just this whole thing it's like a rarefied 1:21:33 air have you played Gretsch your whole life your whole career you know something most of it right you know most of it and 1:21:40 and once I started playing them it was like yeah I had an endorsement with 1:21:46 another company for a while but then I was like a closet I came out of the closet you know oh yeah I love the 1:21:53 Gretchen arms and and but you know talking about going back to today it was 1:21:58 like the sixties and the seventies man there were so many great drums like he had Gretch Ludwig slingerland 1:22:05 yeah hand coat yeah Rogers Rogers premier premier premier I mean I was 1:22:11 like they were all making these great drums Rogers me yeah donar yeah they were all 1:22:18 I mean it was just you know the hardware everything was all different 1:22:24 it wasn't pat metal no the shells weren't warm you know beautiful yeah 1:22:29 they're hand-painted oh yeah all of that some people would say well you know they 1:22:35 were turning out drums and some of it was a happy accident I'm like whoa great whatever they did they did wouldn't 1:22:40 worked yeah and they stand up to this day and you know you Michelle's age and you play these old thing 1:22:46 save lead guitars you see Fender Rhodes and you see these people want to play that stuff cuz yeah oh yeah yeah yeah 1:22:53 yeah I mean how is your body holding up you're how old are you I'm 63 bro 63 1:23:01 played drums all your life yeah I'm like an old football player that's been tackled one too many times 1:23:07 yeah because I just had Paul Stanley on and we're talking about how musicians unlike football players 1:23:15 football players stop playing like when they're 3035 we don't you don't so what 1:23:21 do you got what kind of stuff cuz I you know I've got this herniated disc you know my my feet [ __ ] my right ear who 1:23:30 does not work right ear is gone yeah well I'll tell you what if if I was smart enough to wear ear plugs yeah when 1:23:37 I was 20 21 oh now you know of course I got hearing loss I mean I could still hear ya my high end is taking a big hit 1:23:45 and so a lot of times you know in the consonants oh yeah all that you know yeah I'd have to go huh yes movie 1:23:52 theaters a nightmare for me oh yeah can't understand yeah don't don't be talkin like ya know 1:23:59 I can't understand nothing yeah subtitles yeah yeah the music down yeah you know what I mean [ __ ] you got 1:24:06 nine speakers in this theater I only hear too well those are for spider-man 1:24:11 we'll put them on now what do you got he 1:24:20 got a carpal or anything or shoulders so far so good on that you know I think I 1:24:26 mean lately I've been dealing with low back issues right and and you know that's that's been a bit of a problem so 1:24:32 so I've been going to physical therapy and it's been helping me a lot do you sit in a throne with the backrest type 1:24:38 no I don't actually but I sit in this big saddle scene one thing I've done is 1:24:43 started to sit higher oh yeah and it's helped me out a lot Wow so I mean I would say for drummers 1:24:49 you know really pay attention to your posture yeah and and because especially 1:24:56 if you're younger cuz in the long run it's good it's really going to matter and and now I think I think that a lot 1:25:03 of young players today are have a better head start on that yeah they're already playing with better posture yep and 1:25:10 they're playing more relaxed and you see guys who have they've kind of learned that and they already have that by 1:25:17 default whereas we had to discover a lot of that stuff the hard way like I mean even when 1:25:22 I was playing with Frank I was sitting really low like so low that I was shaving my 1:25:28 drum seat off with a hacksaw when they kept lower than it would go what was that for to hide or just for the song 1:25:35 you know what I had my drums tilted yeah in such a way that I was like boxing at them oh just 1:25:42 this thing just that 70s look you know with the rotor time oh look it was a 1:25:49 whole way of playing and Ike and I was like playing at them like they weren't vertical but they were sort of like yeah 1:25:55 you know at that kind of angle and it just felt like I was like yeah I don't 1:26:00 know it just felt good yeah but after a while after a few use it didn't feel so good then I was like well my back would 1:26:07 hurt and then I would start raising my seat up and so things like that and also like putting the ride cymbal in a weird 1:26:13 spot where you have to play in a way where your your elbow is way up and out 1:26:19 and you know what I'm saying oh yeah stuff is you know I talked to Dave Lombardo and he said he just kept it all 1:26:25 right here says body's perfect just you know instead of yeah in the 80s it was 1:26:30 that big swing exactly arms are going now you're rotating come on and exactly 1:26:35 Tommy Lee stuff and you know you're all [ __ ] you know that's how we were playing in the eighties and I'm thinking 1:26:41 to myself why did we do that yeah you know and so so it's better to keep like 1:26:46 the ride cymbal down here yeah yeah what I mean and so I try to keep that stuff lower and I try to set up in a way so 1:26:53 that when I'm playing it's like dealing cards ya know what I'm saying oh yeah oh yeah yeah it's all right here that's 1:26:59 what Lombardo said everything's right here yep best way to be are you are you gonna go out on tour at all you know what I 1:27:06 got no plans to do anything right now yeah so I'm kind of finished touring for the year and and next year it's like 1:27:13 yeah it's a little too early to talk about it who are you playing with jet pack yeah I went out with Herbie Hancock 1:27:19 this year and also with Jeff Beck oh yeah Jeff Beck I saw you guys at the House of Blues you saw that oh my god my 1:27:26 buddy had Berman the guy that I talked about that was the big fan he goes hey I 1:27:32 got some tickets I can't make it will you go and I went and it was [ __ ] insane oh man I went 1:27:42 solo cuz I was doing comedy and I just grow across street from the Comedy Store 1:27:48 watch it and then go back over and I was just like what is going on here that 1:27:55 that style Jeff Beck and you you know that three-piece what is going on here 1:28:04 is mind-blowing to me and the way he plays guitar do you know guys like a magician he 1:28:10 really is I'm looking at him and seem I'm trying to see what he's doing but 1:28:16 then what I'm hearing it don't match up I'm not thinking or does this hob wad how did he do that and and in a me and 1:28:24 I'm speaking for a lot of people saying this and and just just on an improvisational level you can imagine 1:28:31 what kind of fun that is cuz you don't know what he's gonna do no you know you just really don't know he's gonna pull on this and keeps it so fresh for you 1:28:38 totally does it's a lot like a comedian when they can you know you can get too 1:28:43 locked into your set list and then be like a robot like to me I like to mix it 1:28:49 all around and like ever since I started getting into the dead you know I was 1:28:54 like I'm gonna go sometimes I go too far out I'm like [ __ ] it already to this joke I don't know where I'm at right now 1:29:01 it keeps me alive and in it right to where I'm not a robot so imagine playing 1:29:08 with Jeff back it's just like here we go it's like each night totally different it is exactly that it's anything he 1:29:14 loves that yeah and and and and I could see why because that's just who he is he's lives in that zone he's a creative 1:29:22 guy mysterious yeah there's an air of mystery about us that's so much mystique
Ike Willis
Ike Willis, interviewed by AJ Abrams, Jam Bands, March 2000
I went to school in St. Louis and it was a jazz hub and
my mom was a jazz singer so I grew up with a musical background. [FZ]
came to do a concert at Washington University [October 2, 1977] and I was on the
student concert crew. I met him and we hit it off and he invited me
out to LA for an audition.
[...] He wanted a new lead vocalist because he didn't want to
do it anymore himself.
I was in my dorm room in summer school . . . the last two weeks of summer school . . . he called me in my dorm room and said "Hey it's me. I'm back. I'm keeping my word. I told you that I'd like to fly you here to audition for the band." [...] He was in LA and I was still in St. Louis. He just got back . . . he gave me a call. I said "Ok sure Frank. If that's really who you are." (hahaha) This is like 8 months later. I really hadn't expected him to call me back, but he did. He flew me out the next week and essentially I made it. That's where I met Vinny Colaiuta, Artie Barrow, Peter Wolf, Tommy Mars . . . all those guys. I ended up passing the audition and I was with him from that point until he died in 93.
[...] He said basically, "Here's your ticket." He called me on a Tuesday and called me back the next Friday and said "Ok I got your ticket for Tuesday afternoon and I'll see you then. Can't wait to see you." So basically I flew into LA and we were rehearsing at the old Desilu studios from the old I Love Lucy show. I walk in . . . everything was all set up. It was Denny, Tommy, Ed, Peter Wolf. Frank was looking for drummers, vocalists, keyboard players and guitar players. We had to replace Adrian Belew, Terry Bozzio and Patrick O'hearn on bass. Essentially, he had everything all set up for me. He had a mic and a mic stand, an amp . . . and plug in your guitar . . . give me a hand with these other people that are auditioning too. I looked over to the side of the room and there was a whole long line of people waiting to audition. He gave me a big bear hug and said "Glad you made it. Help me with these guys here. I'll get to you later. Let's get to work." I was there and I pretty much didn't leave. That was on a Tuesday and on Thursday he gave me 20 seconds on my audition and goes ok let's get back to work. On Friday, he hired me and Vinny and Artie Barrow.
Ike Willis was a roadie at a college date in St. Louis; he was helping set up the equipment. He said he played the guitar and sang, so I told him I'd give him an audition. I did, and he turned out to be fantastic.
Q: Is it true Frank fired Ike in 1978 to learn to play the guitar?
E: No. There was however a period at the end of the US tour when Ike got sick and was not in the band.
Q: The band with two bassplayers?
T: Yeah. Patrick (O'Hearn) came in for Frank's solos. He was utilised just as a solo bassist.
E: And then Arthur was just playing the arrangements.
T: Ensemble parts.
E: It was funny. And they were playing in ten's and twelve's and things; it was funny, kind of cool.
My first two years in the band, I wasn't allowed to do any solos or any ad libbing, simply because I was a new member of the band. It was best for me to actually learn Frank's techniques and how his methods worked before trying to branch off and reinterpret any of his arrangements or anything like that. I thought it was a grand idea. After my first few tours, after the first couple of years with the band, then I was given more freedom to open up, and that's why you can hear us laughing back and forth, because it was more comfortable.
Ed Mann The Clonemeister
FZ, interviewed by Ralph Denyer, Sound International, April/May 1979
I'm kinda proud of the band at the moment because they know more complicated arrangements than any band I've ever had before. I've started doing rehearsals a different way too. I started last year hiring one guy in the band to run four hours of drill before I get there. I give 'em the notes. They either have it written down on paper or they've been told what their parts are. Then it's just a case of drilling and memorising it. And so I get one guy out of the band who gets to be drillmaster, he gets a double salary for doing that. Last year it was the percussionist Ed and this year it's the bass player, Arthur.
[...] But the other thing is that, invariably, everybody else in the band ends up hating them by the end of rehearsals. That's why Ed didn't want to do it this year because he wanted to be 'one of the guys'. So now Ed is giving Arthur a bad time.
[I was] appointed (not asked) to be Clonemeister for the 1978-79 band. I did a good job, but I did not enjoy having the responsibility of being a disciplinarian.
[I told] Frank that I no longer wanted to be Clonemeister after the summer of 1978 rehearsals were over.
Ed Mann, alt.fan.frank-zappa, April 27, 2002
Frank always treated the clonemeister(s) with respect. BTW—historical trivia—that name "clonemeister" comes from me and Tommy Mars.
It was a full time job. In fact we used to have to punch a time clock. It was 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday, yes sir.
[...] Actually it was 4 to midnight, but it was still 8 hours. When [FZ] walked in the door . . . guitars strapped up, tuned up . . . everybody's ready to go. We had gone over the stuff that we needed to go over for that day. At that Ed Mann was our clone-meister. Basically he was the student conductor. We'd go in and work on the stuff that Frank wanted us to work on and he'd come in from the house and start cracking the whip. That's how it always worked.
On Monday, June 19th, the rehearsals began in earnest, with Vinnie, Ike and me as the brand new hires. Denny was hired too, but he was already a vet from the Bongo Fury days. Rehearsals were grueling and wonderful. We rehearsed at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for about 6 weeks before the tour. Rehearsals usually got started at 4 pm, although Tommy Mars was almost always there early working with his keyboard set up that he loved so much. One of the band members, Ed Mann, served as "Clonemeister," leading the rehearsal for the first half of the day until Frank arrived and took over. He would often come in and change a lot of things that he had us learn the day before, which could get very confusing.
Gear
Frank and a couple of the other cats went to Manny's (Manny's music store in New York) and he was buying some stuff, and he says "Mars, I've got the greatest instrument for you; you are absolutely going to have a heart attack". I says "What's up?" He says "I've bought you a choir!" (laughs). He says it's an instrument called a vocoder, and I'd heard the name but I'd never actually seen one before, and sure enough, they had it all set up for me at sound check. And I mean I didn't even know how to work it or learn how to use it so that it didn't feedback with ambient sound, it had its own incredibly sophisticated properties, but he actually said "You're going to use it tonight aren't you?" I said "Frank what are you talking about? I've just got it!" He said "I want you to use it tonight", so we actually used it, I think the gig was up at Stony Brook (State University of New York, Stony Brook—15th October 1978), that's the first time I ever used it.
September 15-October 31, 1978—Fall Tour
I just loved playing the church type of things. You remember when Patrick O'Hearn used to preach a little in his solo and I used to play the organ behind it.
I'll never forget one time in Boston. Patrick started to get a little out on his preaching and people starting throwing hot dogs onto the stage. I was playing choirmaster type music in the background and all of a sudden I got winged by a hot dog. And then he never got his solo back, not even a bass-solo. Frank took the whole thing away from him. I thought it was real cute in the beginning, doing a little preaching.
September 28, 1978—Cobo Hall, Detroit, MI
Anne Sharp, "With Decadent Display, Zappa Molests U.S.A.," The Michigan Daily, September 30, 1978
Frank Zappa strolled onstage at Cobo Hall thirty-five minutes late Thursday night, due to a delay in setting up xylophones. No one complained; they just shook their fists happily on high, lustily yelling "ZAPPA!" Their idol, the moustached, raven-locked Salvador Dali of contemporary music, could do no wrong. And he knew it..
Casually dressed in Levis, a simple blue cotton shirt, and red sneakers, Zappa nonchalantly joined his band for the opening instrumental, then launched into a medley of tunes centered around the singles-bar scene, including "Dancing Fool" and "Easy Meat."
FRANK ZAPPA, the performer, is cool, urbane, scornful of television, disco, and the bourgeois way of life. This outlook is typified in the lyric he sang, "I am a moron and this is my wife/She's frosting a cake with a paper knife." He also possesses a scatological streak a mile wide, epitomized in a tune he performed about anal sex, complete with meaningful grimaces at the audience and appropriate gestures at parts of his own anatomy.
Zappa can be so gross! And yet, with screaming feedback and xylophones scurrying through the melody like cartoon mice from outer space, his music is always innovative and technically well-done. he is also a comedian with a gift for improvisation. Plucking a stray Frisbee from the stage, he clapped a baseball cap onto it, and held it like Hamlet contemplating Yorick's skull. "Not only are you intelligent," he told the Frisbee, "but you have a very nice complexion."
"This is the romantic part of our program," Zappa announced. He went on to criticize mass-market love songs like Peter Frampton's "I'm In You" ("And they complain about me with songs like 'Dinah Moe Humm' and stuff! That's soft core porn!") He then sailed into "I Have Been In You," a lecherous reprise to Frampton's tune.
THE AUDIENCE lapped it up, and tried to show their appreciation by throwing things and crowding round the platform. Onstage, however, Joe Cool looked blankly at them and told them not to hassle the T-shirted goons (he called them "ushers") Cobo supplies to keep order during rock concerts.
On the second curtain call, the strangest thing happened. Rather than work the audience into a frenzy (as any red-blooded rock and roll star would have done) by playing a few beloved, rowdy numbers like, say, "Dinah Moe" or "Camarillo Brillo," as he did for the first encore, he performed two long, esoteric instrumentals, "Strictly Genteel" and "Black Napkins."
Dozens of fans who had clustered in the near aisles, ready to rush the stage, drifted back to their seats, bewildered. Unmoved, Frank continued playing his guitar. He wanted none of their love and adoration; how else could he have remained so cool and sardonic, under such circumstances?
October 13, 1978—Passaic, NJ
Patrick O'Hearn
Shortly before we played in Passaic on October 13th, I got a surprise visit to my hotel room from Frank and his wife, Gail. I was informed that Patrick O'Hearn would be added to the group for the remaining two weeks of the tour. Frank said he would work out some two bass arrangement ideas for some things, and that Pat would be doing the jamming parts. I was devastated, to put it mildly.
[...] I don't know for sure, but I heard that the Mean Girls in the band had been complaining to Frank about my playing. They were in touch with Pat, and influenced Frank to add Pat to the line-up. [...] Pat is a nice guy, and we got along fine.
Frank reached out to me in October of '78, I believe, and asked if I'd be willing to join the band on the road for a few dates. Evidently there was tension between Arthur and the band members, and Frank thought I might add some moderating levity to the mix.
[...] Playing with Vinnie was a blast. He's a wonderful musician and a soulful chap.
October 15, 1978—Stony Brook, NY
I remember one day we were in New York and we had a gig out at Stony Brook in Long Island—we called this Christmas at Manny Day. We all went to Manny's Music on 48th St, except me—I had to go visit somebody. I remember going to the soundcheck and Frank says 'I got a surprise for you'. I said 'What? What, Santa?' and he said 'Well, you know how you've always wanted an instrument that will double your voice or play chords? We always thought we'd only be able to do with a delay. But I got a whole synth that will do that for you. They came out with an instrument called a Vocoder and I just bought it. I don't know anything about how it works, but I know you're going to love it, Mars.' It had already been put up on my rack and I'm starting to play with it, and Frank says 'You are going to use it tonight, aren't you? You'll use it tonight, right Tommy?' And he looks at me in that way, and I say 'Well all right . . .'
That Vocoder had only two sounds on it: this heavenly angelic choir sort of sound and what we called the Ant Sound which had no vibrato and sounded very flat and monotone. That's what Frank liked on his voice, the ugly sound.
Ike Willis
Ike had been sent home back in October when he was spotted by Gail at the Gramercy Park Hotel bar in New York after skipping the gig in Stony Brook, saying he was too sick to perform.
